tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post1336210703868561999..comments2024-03-28T14:41:03.793-05:00Comments on The Grumpy Economist: Meditation on a trip to the DMVJohn H. Cochranehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04842601651429471525noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-76072560403211588242018-07-31T18:30:34.308-05:002018-07-31T18:30:34.308-05:00FYI, from the CA state government: https://yogov.o...FYI, from the CA state government: https://yogov.org/blog/finding-it-impossible-to-get-a-timely-dmv-appointment-in-california-heres-why/. Note: not an endorsement of the link.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-28489771008602660402018-07-06T11:54:05.068-05:002018-07-06T11:54:05.068-05:00I moved to GA back in 1999. The DMV here was the ...I moved to GA back in 1999. The DMV here was the same kind of nightmare, albeit only a 2.5 hour one. In the last few years we have had a governor that came from the business community. Two or three years ago a change happened. You can get your license in less than 1/2 hour now. I have lived in MD, VA, WA, OR, CA, and now GA. I have never seen a state clean its act up like GA has in the last few years.<br /><br />I just recently turned down a dream job opportunity in Monterrey. There is no way in hell I am moving to a state that has such a high cost of living, high taxes, and unresponsive and intrusive government... Now if we could just build giant de-humidifiers for outdoor use in the months of July and August, this place would be paradise.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13861480017938398852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-59084534900510368302018-06-13T12:55:01.311-05:002018-06-13T12:55:01.311-05:00The DMV works in L.A. You make an appointment, sho...The DMV works in L.A. You make an appointment, show up at the appointed time, do your business, and leave. It typically takes a half hour. I remember the bad old days, when one person served a long lunchtime line and that one person said, Why don't you people protest? What should we do? we asked. Say, We want a supervisor. So we chanted that and it worked. But sometime between 2000 and 2007, when I was living in Texas, they discovered the internet and straightened things out.Virginia Postrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09186488177740362049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-80530529054353299292018-06-06T05:29:43.202-05:002018-06-06T05:29:43.202-05:00I don't know about Scandinavia, but I live in ...I don't know about Scandinavia, but I live in Austria which is many ways similar, high government spending and taxes. Let's do this test: what exactly does the DMV do? <br /><br />1) If it is about the paperwork with buying or selling a car, this is outsourced to the insurance companies in Austria. The very same insurance company where I do the mandatory liability insurance does the paperwork with the government and hands me the physical licence plates. The insurance company also collects the tax with their usual bills. It is too damn high. It is not unusual to pay $500 mandatory insurance + $600 tax per year. But the administration is efficient as you would expect from a private company. No waiting time and the paperwork takes about 20 minutes.<br /><br />2) If it is about the driving licence, well, you are old enough to already know how to drive? Per-state licences are weird. Getting the first driving licence is hard here, but not the paperwork part but the testing, trying to keep dangerous people off the roads. After that it is just a medical checkup every ten years or so. The licence is valid in other EU countries, not mandatory to exchange it if you live abroad, I did anyway, it took a 15 minute visit to the police station.<br /><br />My healthcare is definitely not ran by bureaucrats, but by doctors. Who have a wide range of choices, some accept the public insurance, some only private or cash, some mix it. Generally speaking paying cash gets one an appointment tomorrow, public insurance in two months. The public insurance is thankfully ran by the city, not the state, so it is not such a huge organization. Some costs, like psychotherapy, are paid cash and partially reimbursed afterwards. This takes posting the invoices to them, the bureaucracy sits on it for a month then they transfer the money.<br /><br />Hospital stay is pleasant enough in Austria. The public insurance covers the basics, like a room shared with another 7 patients and crappy food. Private rooms are available for cash. TV or Wifi costs cash. In our local hospital there is a private restaurant and bar, patients eat pizza and drink alcohol without anyone seeing it strange. It costs about as much as any average restaurant or bar. <br /><br />I don't know how much my public insurance, which covers the 8-patient rooms and the crappy food I wouldn't eat costs. Around a few hundreds a month I think.<br /><br />Overally it seems better than Californian DMV.<br /><br />I think Europhile American Liberals are not being honest. They would not actually adopt the expensive, but relatively efficient systems of Europe. SomeKerlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-12752767564479387072018-06-06T05:28:51.903-05:002018-06-06T05:28:51.903-05:00I don't know about Scandinavia, but I live in ...I don't know about Scandinavia, but I live in Austria which is many ways similar, high government spending and taxes. Let's do this test: what exactly does the DMV do? <br /><br />1) If it is about the paperwork with buying or selling a car, this is outsourced to the insurance companies in Austria. The very same insurance company where I do the mandatory liability insurance does the paperwork with the government and hands me the physical licence plates. The insurance company also collects the tax with their usual bills. It is too damn high. It is not unusual to pay $500 mandatory insurance + $600 tax per year. But the administration is efficient as you would expect from a private company. No waiting time and the paperwork takes about 20 minutes.<br /><br />2) If it is about the driving licence, well, you are old enough to already know how to drive? Per-state licences are weird. Getting the first driving licence is hard here, but not the paperwork part but the testing, trying to keep dangerous people off the roads. After that it is just a medical checkup every ten years or so. The licence is valid in other EU countries, not mandatory to exchange it if you live abroad, I did anyway, it took a 15 minute visit to the police station.<br /><br />My healthcare is definitely not ran by bureaucrats, but by doctors. Who have a wide range of choices, some accept the public insurance, some only private or cash, some mix it. Generally speaking paying cash gets one an appointment tomorrow, public insurance in two months. The public insurance is thankfully ran by the city, not the state, so it is not such a huge organization. Some costs, like psychotherapy, are paid cash and partially reimbursed afterwards. This takes posting the invoices to them, the bureaucracy sits on it for a month then they transfer the money.<br /><br />Hospital stay is pleasant enough in Austria. The public insurance covers the basics, like a room shared with another 7 patients and crappy food. Private rooms are available for cash. TV or Wifi costs cash. In our local hospital there is a private restaurant and bar, patients eat pizza and drink alcohol without anyone seeing it strange. It costs about as much as any average restaurant or bar. <br /><br />I don't know how much my public insurance, which covers the 8-patient rooms and the crappy food I wouldn't eat costs. Around a few hundreds a month I think.<br /><br />Overally it seems better than Californian DMV.<br /><br />I think Europhile American Liberals are not being honest. They would not actually adopt the expensive, but relatively efficient systems of Europe. SomeKerlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-79897111577263798042018-05-29T14:27:30.504-05:002018-05-29T14:27:30.504-05:00Interesting. here in Canada (at least Alberta), yo...Interesting. here in Canada (at least Alberta), you can get a license through a privately-run agency. takes about 5 minutes since there are lots to choose from. Rates are set by the gov't so most efficient make the most $.Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-37736083218765195742018-05-28T11:53:32.795-05:002018-05-28T11:53:32.795-05:00Without reading all other comments...
There is a ...Without reading all other comments...<br /><br />There is a big difference between the health care system and DMW: politicians will never visit DMW, but they and their families will be treated through single-payer health care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-40423212269458891632018-05-27T19:11:31.798-05:002018-05-27T19:11:31.798-05:00I always notice in any DMV I've ever been is ...I always notice in any DMV I've ever been is that nobody in the entire building is ever happyوظائف خاليةhttps://wazfnynow.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-92109678780417224912018-05-26T17:52:35.777-05:002018-05-26T17:52:35.777-05:00Dear John, I see that a number of your readers see...Dear John, I see that a number of your readers seem to think that you are reporting an extreme experience, but I can say that, other than the wait time, my experience at that same DMV last year for a new license was identical except for one difference: I got there 10 minutes earlier and so waited only... drum roll... five and a half hours. <br /><br />I too happily would have made an appointment via the website, however, the options were not days but months into the future. <br /><br />Lessons learned: Bring good reading material and wear comfortable jeans. Avoid drinking anything because otherwise you'll have to set foot in that bathroom. Arrive even earlier, but take the entire day off. Plan something refreshingly fun for the evening. Because, dang, this is grim. C.M. Mayohttp://www.cmmayo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-41139017280618623832018-05-25T19:15:54.864-05:002018-05-25T19:15:54.864-05:00That's inspiring!That's inspiring!<br />LA_Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09775262019154051166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-92194261301941246002018-05-23T20:42:21.995-05:002018-05-23T20:42:21.995-05:00Alas AAA cannot issue a driver's licence, nor ...Alas AAA cannot issue a driver's licence, nor can they register an imported trailer, my two tasks. I'm going back next week for my second long day! John H. Cochranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04842601651429471525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-26197160231965569332018-05-23T16:42:28.900-05:002018-05-23T16:42:28.900-05:00" In many other countries you can pay a bribe..." In many other countries you can pay a bribe to cut through swaths of paperwork. At least in the US you can't do that."<br /><br />Ahh, but you can. For the relatively low price of AAA membership, you have access to a fully functional DMV office at your AAA branch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-21328565593303354682018-05-22T14:52:37.248-05:002018-05-22T14:52:37.248-05:00Not really. I moved from Oregon to be near my gran...Not really. I moved from Oregon to be near my grandchildren. I left CA for Oregon, a far more functional state, 30 yrs ago, with no plans to return. But grandchildren trump ALL disfunctionNorthwestWinterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01156317908928360107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-38266888003419692262018-05-20T20:06:30.111-05:002018-05-20T20:06:30.111-05:00It depends on your comparison group. California...It depends on your comparison group. California's DMV may be bad compared to Norway's DMV.<br /><br />But California's DMV may be doing very well compared to Mexico's DMV :) <br /><br />Given that the vast majority of California is de-facto Mexico, one MAY conclude that California is actually doing quite well compared to it's "natural" level :) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-48476292958626385392018-05-18T15:57:40.913-05:002018-05-18T15:57:40.913-05:00Currently at the Los Gatos DMV. Got here at 9am on...Currently at the Los Gatos DMV. Got here at 9am on a Friday (yes I did not heed Frank's advice). It is currently 2pm and I'm still waiting. <br /><br />Everything and everyone is has a dreary look. The staff are good people but this place is the very embodiment of lassitude and stagnancy. I feel like I've aged 20 years being here.James Carlylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06778250145758547603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-67727611453012573132018-05-18T10:50:48.699-05:002018-05-18T10:50:48.699-05:00I moved from CA to NC just last fall. When I went...I moved from CA to NC just last fall. When I went to get my driver's license here and then to register 3 vehicles, there was very little waiting and everything was quite efficient. In contrast, I still remember my last visit to the CA DMV. I finally got to a clerk after a long wait, and she was extremely put out that the people in line control had not given me the correct form. She threw the form down on the table and walked out. 30 minutes later I was still waiting for her to return. Finally I learned that it was her "break" time. She just got up and left when her break time rolled around, even though she was in the middle of "helping" me!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10869961786558728878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-35211672139610545422018-05-17T14:22:58.428-05:002018-05-17T14:22:58.428-05:00hey grumpy old man! these guys can get an appointm...hey grumpy old man! these guys can get an appointment within the week for you: https://yogov.org/dmv-vip/ (for a fee of course).<br /><br />they even publish expected wait times for appts and walk-ins<br />https://yogov.org/dmv/appointments-online-wait-times/<br />https://yogov.org/dmv/california/real-time-dmv-wait-times/<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-73187733182718632142018-05-17T12:03:08.968-05:002018-05-17T12:03:08.968-05:00Government is not efficient, nor is it intended to...Government is not efficient, nor is it intended to be. As someone who has worked in the building entitlement game for over thirty years, I have seen various forms of organization and function. I used to believe that government could be made to operate more efficiently...and have learned that not only can it not be efficient, from a private sector viewpoint, but that it is not efficient for a very good reason. Government is about more government.<br /><br />Whether it is the DMV, the Planning Department, schools, etc. the function and operation of those "systems" is based upon the need for governments' existence, its' own needs, and the need for continued existence of the governmental process and operation. Look at how regulations, forms, process procedure and the general operation of any agency you interact with occurs. Then look at what they really do...it is about perpetuating the system of government...ever adding requirements and rules that require...well...more government operations/staff/process.<br /><br />DMV is the most obvious "problem" for most people as it is one of the monopolistic systems that the average person must interact with to function in society. Everyone complains...nothing changes...because the system they operate is not designed for the customer...but for the continued government operations...and the self fulfilling needs of government. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-83774866191122016792018-05-17T01:11:35.417-05:002018-05-17T01:11:35.417-05:00The question is WHY is it so bad? Since we know be...The question is WHY is it so bad? Since we know better systems exist that are cheaper why is California DMV so bad. Duncan Earleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-18450464496960226732018-05-16T21:56:16.760-05:002018-05-16T21:56:16.760-05:00One thing I always notice in any DMV I've ever...One thing I always notice in any DMV I've ever been in (about five different ones in MD) is that nobody in the entire building is ever happy...customers and staff. russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08346207211821004125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-24510992348092989552018-05-16T20:57:35.403-05:002018-05-16T20:57:35.403-05:00John's experience might be extreme, but the po...John's experience might be extreme, but the point is well worth making: given how little we know about what makes for `good' government (as in, effective/efficient, as well as clean), other than it being Swiss or Swedish (well, Scandinavian, let's say), making government do less rather than more sounds like a good idea. Yet it's not at all obvious (at least based on casual empiricism) that support for big government is particularly highly correlated with how well government actually works. Maybe the causality goes the other way? Does government works better in Switzerland (or, perhaps, Texas) than it does in California or Greece because it has to? Where the populace has consistently voted to minimize its scope and power, will it do so even more aggressively if its government underperforms?Nick Roussanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-44330801796738540012018-05-16T20:35:22.493-05:002018-05-16T20:35:22.493-05:00The DMV is terrible but the leap to health care is...The DMV is terrible but the leap to health care isn't convincing. Covered CA webwite where I get my insurance works well. I suspect legacy staffing and IT are the main culprits. But you are cirreco the level of taxes we pay should deliver a much higher quality DMV.Kevin Coldironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06775802737390923866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-33761147913970350062018-05-16T18:09:30.104-05:002018-05-16T18:09:30.104-05:00Your article hit me just as I got home from a day ...Your article hit me just as I got home from a day at the DMV getting a very simple extension of a temporary license. Looked like the Night of the Living Dead. And while we're about it, how about CalTrans, rolling in money (gas tax anyone?) but failing to stripe the freeways or even turn on the electricity on freeway signs at night? Comes the revolution...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-90940763604328922092018-05-16T18:05:47.200-05:002018-05-16T18:05:47.200-05:00Interesting about the Danish system. The tension ...Interesting about the Danish system. The tension between good governance and efficient government reveals itself very vividly in approaches to tax collection. Collection systems involving withholding, estimated tax payments and other forms of prepayment may be "efficient", but--to my mind--by obscuring the link between the provision of governmental services and their cost to the taxpayer, they undermine good governance. My solution is an "inefficient" one: outlaw all forms of withholding and prepayment and move election day to April 16.Todd Moodeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-59309080095355667042018-05-16T17:40:18.113-05:002018-05-16T17:40:18.113-05:00I lived most of my life in South Carolina. I went ...I lived most of my life in South Carolina. I went to assorted DMV offices many times over 45 years, not just for myself but accompanying each of my 5 (now adult) kids. I don't think I ever waited more than an hour, and never made an appointment. In all those years I can can recall being annoyed twice. kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.com