tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post2069625616414228211..comments2024-03-28T14:41:03.793-05:00Comments on The Grumpy Economist: Clemens on minimum wageJohn H. Cochranehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04842601651429471525noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-69353554824328780242019-07-29T18:18:24.759-05:002019-07-29T18:18:24.759-05:00"Social background: Many people grow up in ne..."Social background: Many people grow up in neighborhoods where there are no two-parent families, few adults with permanent jobs, widespread crime, no business. Government actions bear a lot of the blame for this." <br /><br />Sure dude. This kind of stuff you describe was virtually inexistent during the social democratic period, i.e. between the New Deal and the Reaganite neoliberal revolution. So its emergence during neoliberalism must be totally due to that evil government!<br /><br />How rightwingers can so consistently lie to themselves and still look into the mirror without seeing the Big Lie they constantly proclaim is beyond me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-15947617163528178422019-05-25T06:13:58.805-05:002019-05-25T06:13:58.805-05:00I realize this post is a few days old but, after r...I realize this post is a few days old but, after reading some of the literature provided by the links in the main post and by the other commenters and then coming back to the article, I've been looking at John's notional supply-demand plot and, though I'm not an economist, shouldn't the dotted red line for the price control be to the right of the blue equilibrium dot? That would indicate higher supply in response to fixed higher prices but lower demand for the higher price. Or is the plot indicating the effect of the higher minimum wage (price) so there are more job-seekers (supply) but lower demand (fewer jobs) at the higher price? Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13865525405013193228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-78960387485078466162019-05-25T03:26:53.451-05:002019-05-25T03:26:53.451-05:00The advent of zero hour contracts in the UK fits i...The advent of zero hour contracts in the UK fits into the proposed possible responses to the minimum wage legislation, i.e. paying the minimum wage rate per hour, and not having employees present and paid during down time, hence paying the same pay over the week.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-55650450124450620262019-05-23T09:56:37.561-05:002019-05-23T09:56:37.561-05:00"Why do we discuss minimum wages so much?&quo..."Why do we discuss minimum wages so much?"<br /><br />That much is easy:<br /><br />(1) The minimum wage is a contentious MORAL issue;<br />(2) A large (and ever increasing) portion of society is uncomfortable debating government policy in moral terms;<br />(3) Economists are able to provide a rich/useful substitute for moral debate; and,<br />(4) Economists cannot resist the urge of increasing supply to satisfy unmet demand.<br /><br />So sure, the minimum wage is not very interesting as a matter of pure economics. But people nevertheless want to debate the minimum wage, and economists have the unique skill to create a framework that allows them to do so constructively.<br /><br />In this sense economists are providing a useful service. Sure the purists who want the profession to become more "science" and less "social science" are greatly dismayed, but that is a trade-off for being useful in this particular circumstance. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-45122358688740927552019-05-23T08:27:18.165-05:002019-05-23T08:27:18.165-05:00It's interesting how businesses have reduced s...It's interesting how businesses have reduced services as minimum wages have increase. Some of it may be inevitable technological progress and unrelated to minimum wages, but it is still interesting to me.<br /><br />For example, back thirty years ago supermarkets had youngsters working at the end of the checkout lane, bagging your groceries as the checkout person rang them up. At the supermarket I worked at, we even carried the groceries out for you and loaded your trunk. Nowadays, there are no more dedicated baggers, and the checkout people give you dirty looks if you expect them to bag your groceries rather than you doing it yourself. More recently, most groceries have installed self-checkout lanes and expect you to scan, bag, and pay for your groceries without any assistance.<br /><br />In fast-food restaurants, rather than a kid behind the counter taking your order, you're expected to enter the order yourself using a touchscreen.<br /><br />What really worries me as the minimum wage increases is where youngsters are supposed to learn the simple job skills like being polite to customers, providing assistance, etc. With higher wages, most businesses can no longer afford to hire teenagers. Paper routes before or after school are no longer a thing, and boys who want to spend the summer mowing lawns are having to compete with full-time landscapers.<br /><br />What really worries me is how are kids supposed to learn how to work now that all the jobs they used to do no longer exist. Now we're stuck with Gen Z kids entering the workforce full time after college with absolutely none of the soft skills you learn by actually working.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-65715532816780582272019-05-22T20:02:31.687-05:002019-05-22T20:02:31.687-05:00The reason we focus so much attention on the minim...The reason we focus so much attention on the minimum wage is because it's such an easy thing to fix, and easy to understand. Rotten education system? Entitlement reform? Zoning laws? All of these are massively complicated, hard-to-solve, relatively hard-to-explain, politically entrenched problems. <br /><br />Inflation is a similar example. The welfare cost of moderate inflation is pretty low. But it gets a lot of attention because it's easy to understand, and should be easy to avoid.<br /><br />James Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12351535910140039924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-19161219627593469392019-05-22T10:15:10.173-05:002019-05-22T10:15:10.173-05:00It could be much better but...
A rotten education ...It could be much better but...<br /><em>A rotten education system, beholden to teachers unions.</em><br /><br />Schooling in the developed world all seems to be at a similar level. I think there are and insignificant number of bad schools in the developed world. <br /><br /><a href="http://un-thought.blogspot.com/2019/02/a-rational-argument-could-made-that-usa.html" rel="nofollow">A Rational Argument Could Made that the USA has Best Education in the World and Florida has the Best Education in the USA </a>JWOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00004178958481335795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-19569543634729543682019-05-22T07:52:24.407-05:002019-05-22T07:52:24.407-05:00"Why do we discuss minimum wages so much? I t..."Why do we discuss minimum wages so much? I think they irritate free-market economists because they are such a clear, simple, and paradigmatic stupid idea." <br /><br />No, they are a (paradigmatic?) example of a second best policy for raising incomes. It's hard to take seriously a criticism of minimum wages that treats it as some out of the blue "stupid" idea without pointing out how wage subsidies or a higher EITC could achieve the same benefits w/o the costs. Thaomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14747215297590200584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-42499895800555761402019-05-22T04:49:26.836-05:002019-05-22T04:49:26.836-05:00Retailers clearly prefer customers who earn and sp...Retailers clearly prefer customers who earn and spend very little money, because...<br /><br />Government will borrow from central banks money created out of thin air and give it to workers so workers can pay high rentts to emplooyers paying wages too low to buy all that is produced at high profit?<br /><br />Call the debt funded welfare a tax cut named EITC to trick conservatives into enthusiastically embracing a welfare state.mulphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14149487211960071193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-74883771615109044932019-05-22T03:10:19.111-05:002019-05-22T03:10:19.111-05:00How can economists possibly convince the policymak...How can economists possibly convince the policymakers that some other policy is beneficial or harmful if they can't even convince them of (or indeed present consensual position on) harms of a price floorPavel Shevchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05577218879648798556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-72181648819108755492019-05-22T00:37:35.063-05:002019-05-22T00:37:35.063-05:00Neoclassical price theory has always been a "...Neoclassical price theory has always been a "model" and empirical testing often has to be explained-away by contextual considerations (e.g. Stigler's article about "demand curves sloping upwards). The key is the elasticity, and it is hardly a single statistic; obviously greater in the long run, but always location specific. It is difficult to demonstrate a general principle empirically, much less "to test it," when every situation is new and different.<br /><br />I stand with the neoclassical claim: Demanders will pay what they think the marginal contribution of a specific laborer is, and less if they can get away with it. With a price control, the pool of "good workers" to select from - and discharge if not - will be larger with a fixed wage floor above what a "good worker" would require. Such a worker, if alert, could also move along down the job listings in 2 weeks if the job were less than satisfying, regardless of the wage. A tight labor market is far better than silly price fixing schemes. <br />Joe Cobbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08291560283071288527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-32406006444241504732019-05-21T19:05:10.527-05:002019-05-21T19:05:10.527-05:00The death by a thousand cuts of restrictions on lo...The death by a thousand cuts of restrictions on low-price low-income entrepreneurship. Business licenses, zoning...----JC<br /><br />I wish you had mentioned the routine criminalization of pushcart vending, or motorcycle-sidecar vending, or truck vending.<br /><br />In addition to providing lower-cost Goods to the exalted consumer, such forms of vending would open up business to people who have only a small amount of capital. Perhaps voters would feel minimum wage laws are not necessary if they had the ability to open up their own business. <br /><br />Now, if we can only convince the Federal Reserve that an unemployment rate of 5%, as measured by U3, is not the Goldilocks zone but rather a disaster.Benjamin Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14001038338873263877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-21700872010477469962019-05-21T17:55:30.287-05:002019-05-21T17:55:30.287-05:00"Minimum wage effects are small potatoes"..."Minimum wage effects are small potatoes" may be true on average of past minimum wage policy consequences. It is not an argument of principle: Why raise to a mere $15 per hour? Why not $150? Where does one stop?<br /><br />Please do a $150 experiment nationally so that we don't have too much emigration from individual states messing up the experiment.<br /><br />Anyway, maybe the small potatoes mostly affects young black males who have been subjected to marvelous education systems, making the small potatoes pretty damned big for them.<br /><br /> Frank https://www.blogger.com/profile/00272351675231621678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-57314614722221228562019-05-21T11:26:02.708-05:002019-05-21T11:26:02.708-05:00What do you think of models which suggest that the...What do you think of models which suggest that the data can actually match a theory of industrial organization with monopolistic competition in product markets and monopsonistic competition in labor markets?Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209903229153145357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-582368152716771238.post-9055200841872698062019-05-21T10:27:17.574-05:002019-05-21T10:27:17.574-05:00Minimum wages chase poor people out, which would r...Minimum wages chase poor people out, which would raise property values, improve business climate, and increase employment. A min wage advocate who does not understand this could look around, see that his neighborhood looks better after imposition of a min wage, and pat himself on the back for, among other things, helping the very people that the min wage chased away.Mike Sproulnoreply@blogger.com